01 November 2009

1967 BORDERS? WHAT 1967 BORDERS!

Throw away those keys you ethnically cleansed Palestinians, remain in your tents all you displaced Palestinians, enjoy living for generations to come in your refugee camps all you uprooted Palestinians, and to all of you living in East Jerusalem, you will be leaving soon, so pack your bags. Such is the new message to Palestinians from the Obama Administration.

Clinton praises her Masters:
“She said Israel has made "unprecedented" concessions on settlement building”
The U-turn to the Dark Side is now complete. Obama sent his lackey Clinton to the Middle East for an “Arse Kissing Fest” with Netanyahu. Yes folks the Illegal, let me repeat that word “Illegal” settlements have become a “non issue” for America, they are off the table, wave bye, toodleooski, sayonara, see ya.

I just finished watching the Clinton/Netanyahu love fest on television. It was sickening to see the Americans being wholly owned by the Israelis. But then again, they now know their place under their masters, right alongside the Palestinians, equally dismissed, equally controlled, equally unimportant. Today’s report, and I must note that the video I watched was much worse than this written report:
The administration of Barack Obama, the US president, had previously demanded that Israel halt all settlement building before negotiations could resume, a move that was applauded by the Palestinians but which brought the US and Israel to loggerheads.
The settlements are considered illegal under international law.

Jacky Rowland, Al Jazeera's Jerusalem correspondent, said: "The Americans would never admit to backtracking, but if we watch the way that the language has changed and the way the emphasis has changed, it's quite clear there has been a slide in the American position.

In May, Clinton had said Obama "wants to see a stop to settlements. Not some settlements, not outposts, not natural growth exceptions".

But after bringing Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, and Netanyahu together at the United Nations in New York in September, Obama called only for "restraint" on settlements, not a "freeze".

"We really watched Hillary Clinton fall into line with Israel," our correspondent said of her latest remarks.

"The 1967 borders seems to be up for negotiations, and that is something no Palestinian leader can accept." LINK

15 comments:

Desert Peace said...

The dear woman obviously has a problem.....
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/hillarys-toxic-middle-east-trip/

Saladin said...

Hello IRISH:)How are you?
I took a 3 day time out from comenting on your blog because i wanted to think about everything that has been said and to find in my mind how to write you a proper response,because last time things went slightly in the wrong way,and i didnt want that.I will repeat somethings i said before in my last coment and add some new things so that my opinion is full clear.

Since the begining of the israeli occupation in 1948 till today the biggest problem for the palestinians was that there wasnt any fair broker state or states that will alow the justice peace process in palestine that will spair many inocent palestinian lives!from the begining whole super power states agreed on very evil and closly aranged plan how to alow israel to grap the land from the palestinians.We all know that the UN plan to give israel half of the palestinian land so that the state can be divided into 2 parts was a very big joke and a sick play with the minds of the palestinians!They perfectly knew that the palestinians and the arab world would not accept that kind of arangment,because nobody normal in the world would accept that someone propose to you that some people who dont have the right to live in your country take the half of your land!and what did they suposed to say:ok,we will give someone half of our land,no problem!yeah right!i would be very interested to see the reaction of for ex.france if for ex.spain ask them to give them half of their land because the spanish people think that half of france is theirs.and france will just say ok,we will give you that no problem.yeah right again!

Britain didnt gave the israelis the land in palestine because of the holocaust!thats a very big joke also!the plan that jewish people come and create their state in palestine was planed and agreed long before that,in the begining of the 1900......!
So what happened,arabs like any other normal people object the idea of 2 states,and then usa and britain give the green light to israelis to start the massacre of the palestinian people!

"I fear very much that the jews are like all underdogs.When they get on the top they are just as intolerant and cruel as the people were to them when they were underneath.I regret this situation very much because my sympathy has always been on their side."

These words by harry truman is again and of course a very big joke!the americans knew perfectly what will happen and they didnt give a damm about that!but of course their president needed to adress the public on this issue and wash the usa sins with this kind of idiotic rhetoric!But the behavior of the americans is the same like the israelis.they booth lie every time they say something!!

And this kind of behavior:everytime they open their mouth they lie......continued till today!all the promises,all the hope that was given to the palestine people was not sincere!everything that they said and will said in the future are just a very big disctusting lies,the lies that gives the zionist the time to take control of all palestine land,but not just that,i said many times that israel will not stop when they conquer the whole palestine!lebanon,syria and jordan are next!of course this sound insane when i say this but if someone dont stop israel they will continue to expand!its very naive to think that only goal of the zionist is to take only palestinian land!their greed and their perseption is no different than the perseption of adolf hitler,just with some new modifications!
that things may not happen in our life time,but news-flash everybody:the world doesnt stop when we die,it continues!

Saladin said...

Part 2

As i said before,there is no peace-process and will never be a peace-process!there will be just new more lies that will be told to the palestinians while each year the zionist grap more and more land from the palestinians!
And thats why they FEAR HAMAS so much!again its very naive to think that the usa,eu and israel fear HAMAS because they have a strong military power and they can defeat the israelis!they fear HAMAS because HAMAS have understood long time ago that the only way to confront the genocide entity of israel is with the military resistance,so they dont want that HAMAS vision spread outside gaza strip to west bank because then the usa,eu and israel will have a large problem in their hands!then the whole world will see that palestinians are resisting the brutal and world military power regime with just stones,bottles or guns,and when the wold will saw on what way the israelis brutaly confront against basicly defenceless people then the worlds perspective will change DRASTICLY!this is why the dont give HAMAS any time to "breath",but they suport the fatah movement,the traitors of the palestine people who accept to be a slave and engage with them in "peace process"although they know and they agreed with usa,eu and israel that nothing will come out of that,and in the end they will give everything to israel in exchange of large amounts of money on some secret bank accounts,from which they will live the rest of their life in luxury way!

The speech of hilary clinton was dicusting of course,the speech in which she basicly say that the israelis will continue to grap,kill,prison and torture the palestinians but those reasons are not the obstacle to the palestinians to talk with the israelis in «peace process»!
I will say 2 things about that speech for ex.,because there were many speeaches like her in the past and will be more speeches like this in the future!
1.although is said this speech was very discusting,it would be very naive if we know talk about that speech like we are stoned,without words or we are shocked because we expected something else!every normal person that folows closely the things that are happening in the palestine knows that she would say excatly this words and that the rhetoric of the usa will be far more worsed in the future!
2.this kind of speeches is a clear profe that GENERALY people dont give a damm about the palestine but in more larger pespective in the justice and love in the world!as i said it many times!
everything is conected in this world and everything is a chain reaction!the usa,eu or should i say basicly the whole goverments in the world would never dare to lie on the television or to suport the genocide entity israel if people in the world object to that idea1israel will never dare to do these kind of things to the palestinians if they dont have the full suport from the usa,eu.russia.china but also as i said basicly every goverment in the world!!
this bring me to my next subject in this coment that i want to say.
i said milion times,ONLY LARGE SCALE OF SUPORT BY THE ORDINARY PEOPLE WILL HELP THE PALESTINIANS TO ACHIEVE THEIR RIGHTS AND THEIR FREEDOM!BUT THAT SUPORT WILL NEVER HAPPEN BECAUSE PEOPLE DONT GIVE A DAMM ABOUT ANYTHING BUT THEMSELFS!!

Now i hope you will not get angry on me IRISH for saying this,but i think you have 2 problems:
1.i think you have very big faith in the humanity and in the people,but that perseption comes without any good proofes and the theory that people want to help others only lives in our mind because we want that to be the truth.
2.this is not ireland IRISH,and i think you are naive because you think that the same things will happen in the palestine like it happened in ireland.this is palestine man not ireland! ireland is ireland,those 2 subjects dont have too much in common,the situation is much diferent.

Saladin said...

Part 3

In your last coment i got a feeling that you wanted me to tell that i want to see many more inocent palestinians to be killed,which is not the case for sure,i dont want to see any new palestinian victim,and my heart goes everyday for all the people who are sufering there!i think about them every day!Since you asked me your question that time i will ask you my questions:
Do you think its fair that any palestine party throw in the garbage the ideas and the life that all the people from the palestine lived and are living in this moment?do you think its fair that people from palestine sufer every day while the so call "peace process"is under way?do you think its fair that any palestinian party acceept humorous small part of land that will be called palestine while so many people have died and are still dying every day with the dream and ideals that some day palestine will be free?do you think its fair that we insult the Martyrs,and their families by accepting something that they didnt fight for?do you think its fair that their suferings and sacrifices where throw from the window?do you think its fair for the palestinian prisoners who are living in awful conditions and being tortured every day to give up their dream of free palestine,the dream that only keeps them alive in their minds?

EVERY QUESTION I ASKED YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO THE GARBAGE IF THIS "PEACE PROCESS" IS CONTINUED!THE DREAM IS FALING APPART MAN!!THE DREAM OF THE WHOLE FREE PALESTINE IS OVER,NOW THE DREAM OF PALESTINE INSIDE 1967.BORDERS IS PRETTY MUCH OVER ASWELL!!

HOW WILL SOMEONE MANAGE IN THE FUTURE TO LOOK THE MOTHER THAT LOST 4 SONS IN HER EYES AND TELL HER:I AM SOORY,BUT EVERYTHING YOUR SONS HAVE BEEN FOUGHT WAS IN VAIN!!!!!!!!!!

No IRISH i didnt experience the atrocities of war,when the war came to my country i was lucky to be very young and to live in the city that was not attacked,but i have plenty of my family in the other cities who experience the horors of war,and because i didnt experience those things doesnt mean that i canot talk about this things and still be on the right track.

LETS BE REAL,NOBODY NORMAL WANTS A WAR,NOBODY NORMAL CANOT FIND A SENCE IN THAT,BUT AS I SAID LAST TIME,ITS COMES A DAY WHEN YOU REALIZE THAT YOU CANOT SHAKE HANDS AND LIVE IN PEACE WITH THE DEVIL,AND IT COMES A DAY WHEN THE ONLY WAY TO FIGHT THE DEVIL IS BY WAR,EVEN IF YOU LOOSE AND DIE!!
DID YOU EVER THINK IRISH THAT SADLY THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THIS PRESENT TIME IN PALESTINE SIMPLY DONT HAVE THE LUCK AND THAT THEY ARE DOOMED AND THAT MAYBE THEIR SACRIFICE WILL BRING A BRIGHTER DAY TO THE FUTURE PALESTINIAN GENERATIONS?

Saladin said...

Part 4

In the end few apologizes:

I AM SORRY IRISH BECAUSE I SAID THAT I WILL NEVER COME HERE AGAIN AND COMENT AND OTHER BLA BLA THINGS I SAID REGARDING THIS SUBJECT!I ACTED LIKE AN IDIOT AND I APOLOGIZE!IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!I APOLOGIZE IF WHIT MY MENTION OF WAR IT BROUGH YOU SAD MEMORIES ABOUT THE PAST OF YOUR PEOPLE AND YOU!I DIDNT MEAN TO MAKE YOU SAD,I IDONT WANT THAT,I WANT YOU TO BE HAPPY,NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT!
ALSO I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE DOING VERY MUCH FOR PALESTINE AND THAT YOU GIVING"YOURSELF" HERE ON FORUM ALSO VERY MUCH,AND YOU DONT WANT TO LOSE YOUR BLOG BECAUSE SOMEONE WRITES THE THINGS THAT ARE NOT IN BLOGS TERMS.I APLOGIZE FOR THAT ALSO AND IN THE FUTURE I WILL TRY TO WRITE WHAT I THINK IN BETTER WAY!!

YOU SAID IN YOUR COMENT THE WORDS:YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THIS AND THAT,AND I SAID IN MY COMENT HERE THE SAME WORDS...........

LOOKS LIKE WE ARE ON THE WRONG TRACKS REGARDING THIS SUBJECT,BUT I HOPE DESPITE WE DONT AGREE ON THIS ONE THAT WE WILL STILL ENGAGE IN TALKS,BECAUSE I also ENJOY TALKING TO YOU!

SEE YAA MY FRIEND,STAY GOOD!!:)

Irish4Palestine said...

Sal, I got yout comments and will post them and a reply but it will most likely be tomorrow. The heating is broke in the hosue and it's freezing, my fingers can hardly type. It should be repaired by tomorrow and then I can think and type, right now it's just too bloody cold!! check back then Ok? All the best;o)

Saladin said...

Ok IRISH:).For god sake,put some extra clothes on yourself,i dont want to see you get frozen.
see yaa:)

Saladin said...

Maybe some irish coffee will help:)

Irish4Palestine said...

yeah, im gonna add something to that irish coffee lol, seriously it's freezin, damn heatin, i need some turf!

Irish4Palestine said...

part 1:

Hello IRISH:)How are you?

>>> HI Sal, excellent writing in your posts! Very good wording and thought, much better I think. So my compliments in your well thought out and written comments ;o)

So what happened,arabs like any other normal people object the idea of 2 states,and then usa and britain give the green light to israelis to start the massacre of the palestinian people!

>>>>>Sal, I also have much blame for the Arab states in all of this. Their behaviour has been disgraceful. Most of them are greedy, sucking up American money at the expense of Palestinians. At any time, including right now, if they were to band together and make a stand against what Israel and America are attempting to do, this would be all over with. They have the oil and jobs America needs to survive, yet they happily sell millions of barrels to the US, instead of boycotting the US until America decides to play equal with the Palestinians and Arabs in the Middle East. But their greed won’t let them, and the truth is many of their leaders really don’t give a shit about Palestinians. Jordan is scared shitless that it will end up having to keep all those displaced Palestinians in refugee camps, and Egypt is petrified it could end up with Gaza. So just as the Americans and Israel are guilty, so are many Arab states and they actually have the power to stop this immediately? America would not be capable of attacking them all if the joined together to pressure the US to support a plan calling for two state solution based on the 1967 borders, which is what Hamas (and most people) want.

"I fear very much that the jews are like all underdogs.When they get on the top they are just as intolerant and cruel as the people were to them when they were underneath.I regret this situation very much because my sympathy has always been on their side."

These words by harry truman is again and of course a very big joke!
>>>>not really, Truman saw what they were like; he was one of the few presidents to worry about them infiltrating America and taking it over. Additionally George Washington saw what the truth was and worried about it. Also, john Kennedy and moreover his brother Bobby (who was assassinated) were very wary of the Jews in America working for Israel. And for this bobby was assassinated. Never since has anyone tried to take them on in America.


And this kind of behavior:everytime they open their mouth they lie......continued till today!all the promises,all the hope that was given to the palestine people was not sincere!everything that they said and will said in the future are just a very big disctusting lies,the lies that gives the zionist the time to take control of all palestine land,but not just that,i said many times that israel will not stop when they conquer the whole palestine!lebanon,syria and jordan are next!of course this sound insane when i say this but if someone dont stop israel they will continue to expand!its very naive to think that only goal of the zionist is to take only palestinian land!their greed and their perseption is no different than the perseption of adolf hitler,just with some new modifications!
that things may not happen in our life time,but news-flash everybody:the world doesnt stop when we die,it continues!

>>>>>>>I agree that Israel is a greedy nation of colonizers, but I also believe it will stop with what they manage to steal fro Palestine. They know they have reached the end of their land grabbing; this is why they are building as fast as they can now.

Irish4Palestine said...

Part 2-A

As i said before,there is no peace-process and will never be a peace-process!there will be just new more lies that will be told to the palestinians while each year the zionist grap more and more land from the palestinians!

>>>> I agree on the land thing. But sadly for Palestine there will be a “peace process” Obama will ensure that takes place. I am telling you that he will do this, he wan’ts to go down in history as a “great man” who delivered peace to the middle east. But that peace will be the type of peace israal wants. With a palestineian state that is not soverign and is nthing more than a province that is allowed to self govern like an assembly. The land will be like swiss cheese. I also belive that it is possible that either they will do a deal with only the West bank, and deal with Gaza separately, or if hamas is unable to get into the elections and at least get re-elected in Gaza, then they will be declared no longer in government by Israel and the world, then they will be dealt with as an illegal coup. I fear this will happen if Hamas don’t get in those elections!

And thats why they FEAR HAMAS so much!again its very naive to think that the usa,eu and israel fear HAMAS because they have a strong military power and they can defeat the israelis!they fear HAMAS because HAMAS have understood long time ago that the only way to confront the genocide entity of israel is with the military resistance,

>>>>Sal, you know that I supported the armed struggle in Ireland. Sometimes it is the only way. I also believe Palestinians have the right to resist the occupation as we did in Ireland. The problem for resistance movements like Hamas is they are operating under a siege. At least in Ireland we could cross our borders and travel outside. Also the IRA had access to more and better weapons than Hamas, and even then we were at a stalemate with the British army after 30 years of struggle. So, the fact that hamas can continue to target sections of Israel with homemade rockets, yet Israel has the 4th largest army in the world and can decide at any time to choose a scorched earth policy on Gaza, is a serious problem. Hamas is less armed than we were and facing a rogue state that has the backing of the USA. This is my own personal perspective here Saladin, but there is a time for armed struggle and a time to capitalise on events in your favour. And I think the 2nd option is now here because at no other time has the world been so focused on Palestine. Hamas problem is there is no solidarity within all of its ranks and it has no experience at moving from war to politics because it was created as a resistance movement, not a political movement. However, there are some brilliant political minds within hamas and they could make that jump if they had the support of all ranks and supporters. They could then challenge Fatah and abbas on a serious level that could really do some damage. They could also help to ensure that Palestine gets the best deal it can and end the FATAH political corruption.

The speech of hilary clinton was dicusting

>>>> yes it was pathetic. But she is wholly owned by the American jewish Lobby, most of the money she used to run her campaign for president came from them. Obama on the other hand, is the first president to have become elected on small donations from millions of Americans. Yet he has now squandered this and become beholding to the Jewish Lobby like the rest of them. I knew there was abig problem when he appointed Rahm Emanuel who fought for Israel and who’s father was an Israeli terrorist and a member of Irgun.

this bring me to my next subject in this coment that i want to say.
i said milion times,ONLY LARGE SCALE OF SUPORT BY THE ORDINARY PEOPLE WILL HELP THE PALESTINIANS TO ACHIEVE THEIR RIGHTS AND THEIR FREEDOM!BUT THAT SUPORT WILL NEVER HAPPEN BECAUSE PEOPLE DONT GIVE A DAMM ABOUT ANYTHING BUT THEMSELFS!!

>>>> I agree, except I do believe that the vast majority of regular people in the world do care

Irish4Palestine said...

part2-B
Now i hope you will not get angry on me IRISH for saying this,but i think you have 2 problems:
>>>>no I’ll not be angry ;o)

1.i think you have very big faith in the humanity and in the people,but that perseption comes without any good proofes and the theory that people want to help others only lives in our mind because we want that to be the truth.

>>>>>>>I will say again, I believe the majority of people have seen what Israel truly is. I also believe the majority of regular people sympathize with Palestine and believe they are victims. But only a smaller part of these people will act or become politically involved to work for Palestine or lobby their government to support Palestine. This is the difference. But I say again, never before have so many regular people of all ages become so outraged at Israel. Israel ahs lost the most important battle, the battle for the hearts and minds of the world.

2.this is not ireland IRISH,and i think you are naive because you think that the same things will happen in the palestine like it happened in ireland.this is palestine man not ireland! ireland is ireland,those 2 subjects dont have too much in common,the situation is much diferent.

>>>>Oh Dear Saladin, for this I will need to write books LOL Although not everything is identical, There are a GREAT many things that are the same, a great many my friend. And this is why the Palestinians seek our advice and wish to learn from us. One day when I have a whole lot of time, I’ll write out all the things that are the same. But I will leave you with one little thing of interest. I have friends who were some of the first to enter Gaza after the genocide last January. When they entered Gaza they were immediately set upon by a huge crowd, one man ran up with his cell phone and on the phone was playing an Irish Republican song called “four green fields”

LYRICS:
What did I have, said the fine old woman
What did I have, this proud old woman did say
I had four green fields, each one was a jewel
But strangers came and tried to take them from me
I had fine strong sons, they fought to save my jewels
They fought and they died, and that was my grief said she

Long time ago, said the fine old woman
Long time ago, this proud old woman did say
There was war and death, plundering and pillage
My people starved, by mountain, valley and sea
And their wailing cries, they reach the very heavens
My four green fields ran red with their blood, said she

What have I now, said the fine old woman
What have I now, this proud old woman did say
I have four green fields, one of thems in bondage
In stranger's hands, that tried to take it from me
But my sons they have sons, as brave as were their fathers
My fourth green field will bloom once again said she

Also you can see it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3O-UgjGRco THE images in the video take you over the last 30 years up till now.

SAL you can read this: http://irish4palestine.blogspot.com/2009/04/stones-against-tanksthe-risen-people.html


maybe then you'll understand

Irish4Palestine said...

Part 3


Do you think its fair that any palestine party throw in the garbage the ideas and the life that all the people from the palestine lived and are living in this moment?

do you think its fair that people from palestine sufer every day while the so call "peace process"is under way? do you think its fair that any palestinian party acceept humorous small part of land that will be called palestine while so many people have died and are still dying every day with the dream and ideals that some day palestine will be free?

>>>Seriously Saladin, now this does make me a wee bit angry. where did I say ANY of this?



do you think its fair that we insult the Martyrs,and their families by accepting something that they didnt fight for?

>>>Now, Saladin I take offence to this statement you made above. And feel that you are insulting me and the Irish people who died in our struggle and I’ll not have that my friend. Many of OUR prisoners of war have stood side by side with the families of jailed Palestinians, so you shouldn’t go there unless you understand the solidarity between our people and Palestine. You do not have a good understanding of the very real links between the people of Palestine and Irish republicans Saladin. They go back many years even to Yassir Arafat.


do you think its fair that their suferings and sacrifices where throw from the window?do you think its fair for the palestinian prisoners who are living in awful conditions and being tortured every day to give up their dream of free palestine,the dream that only keeps them alive in their minds?

>>>>>again, see last answer….



No IRISH i didnt experience the atrocities of war,when the war came to my country i was lucky to be very young and to live in the city that was not attacked,but i have plenty of my family in the other cities who experience the horors of war,and because i didnt experience those things doesnt mean that i canot talk about this things and still be on the right track.


>>> no it does not mean you cannot talk about war. But you must be realistic Saladin. There are times to call for war and times where the struggle takes another form for a time, we are not at the war stage right now, we are at a different struggle stage right now and we must see where it all leads to. Wars can be called for very easily, at any time, but they should be a last option, not a first. That is my point. We had several attempts at a peace process before one stuck, after each failed attempt we went back to war. That is my point Saladin. What is happening right now with the goldstone report and the international law situations with Israel need to remain the MAIN focus. That is how we get to Israel. The moment hamas would begin shooting rockets then that would get Israel RIGHT off the hook, that is surely not what you want is it? The time is not right; we must capitalise on the recent events and keep Israel the main focus right now. Get some of them convicted as war criminals and continue to destroy the image Israel projects of itself, and thus weaken more worldwide support for the evil rogue state. That’s my political opinion.

Irish4Palestine said...

Part 4

In the end few apologizes:


LOOKS LIKE WE ARE ON THE WRONG TRACKS REGARDING THIS SUBJECT,BUT I HOPE DESPITE WE DONT AGREE ON THIS ONE THAT WE WILL STILL ENGAGE IN TALKS,BECAUSE I also ENJOY TALKING TO YOU!

SEE YAA MY FRIEND,STAY GOOD!!:)

>>>>> I enjoy talking to you as well. WE may disagree at times but that is life. I want you to understand that we Irish come from a perspective of having lived under occupation and of having had an armed struggle for many years. With that comes some perspective and the knowledge of knowing when to do things and when not to. Wars serve a purpose, gaining the political advances that effect real change is just as important. It’s what wars are fought for, the right to self determination and self governing. And all along the way it is very important to take advantage of events that take place which will give power to your side. Right now Palestine has this due to Israel’s genocide. So right now it is very important to keep the focus on Israel. Example: search the word “Israel” in google and look at the articles reported, and then search the word “Palestine or Gaza” and see the results of what is being reported. Israel is loosing the war without one bullet being fired at them; this is why now is the time to keep going at them, using goldstone, international law and lawfare. Eroding more support, until they are seen for the criminals they are. Also we need to keep the pressure on for a fair deal for Palestine. So eroding Israeli support is key to all of this. If that makes sense.

All the best;o)

Irish4Palestine said...

P.S.

I have to get back to work now

cheers:)

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